Question explored with the scientific record
Conversation so far
- 1 What is energy itself, using "real science" to answer? + a private exchange
- 2 Yes, but not consistent with your just previous reply. "Energy is a conserved scalar derived from time-translation symmetry, not a physical substance. Confidence: high—this is settled physics, confirmed across quantum mechanics, relativity, and thermodynamics.
- 3 Yes, but still inconsisytent with what seemms to be your insistence of saying it is fundamental to physics.
- 4 Why does physics insist in providing an answer for something it cannot objectively identify?
- 5 So how would science ever conclude that energy just is the acrtivity of consciousness, evidenced by the fact that it va cannot separate the boundary of energy fro observations of it?
- 6 says the observer: "Energy is a conserved scalar derived from time-translation symmetry, not a physical substance. Confidence: high—this is settled physics, confirmed across quantum mechanics, relativity, and thermodynamics."
Answered on this page ↓
says the observer: "Energy is a conserved scalar derived from time-translation symmetry, not a physical substance. Confidence: high—this is settled physics, confirmed across quantum mechanics, relativity, and thermodynamics."
The observer's statement is correct: energy is a conserved scalar derived from time-translation symmetry, not a physical substance. This is settled physics.
Noether's theorem, which links symmetries to conservation laws, is the foundation here. Time-translation symmetry of the laws of physics directly implies conservation of energy [3]. The retrieved evidence on Noether symmetries in spacetime confirms this: conserved quantities arise from symmetries of the Lagrangian, and energy is the conserved quantity associated with time invariance [3]. This holds across classical mechanics, quantum mechanics, and general relativity.
Energy is not a "stuff" you can point to. It is a numerical quantity that stays the same in a closed system, calculated from the state of a system. A pendulum's total mechanical energy is constant, but that energy is not a substance inside the pendulum—it is a relationship between its position and velocity [1]. The energy-based quantum state reduction model shows that energy is conserved in expectation even during measurement collapse [2], reinforcing that energy is a mathematical property of the system's state, not a physical fluid.
The observer measures energy by how a system evolves over time. Because energy is tied to time symmetry, any measurement of energy is a measurement of how the system changes with time. The "cannot separate the boundary of energy from observations" premise from the previous question confuses this operational definition with a metaphysical claim. Physics does not need to say what energy "really is" to use it. It defines energy by what it does: it is the conserved quantity that Noether's theorem gives you from time symmetry, and you measure it by observing the system's dynamics.
My call: The observer's characterization is correct. Energy is a conserved scalar from time-translation symmetry, not a substance. Confidence: high—this is standard physics confirmed across all tested domains.
Sources used 3
-
Simple Pendulums in Simple Harmonic motion
A direct energy-conservation-based derivation yields the small-angle pendulum's time evolution without solving its differential equation, giving SHM forms theta(t) with omega0 = sqrt(g/ell) and period T = 2pi/omega0.
DOI: 10.48550/arXiv.2605.24708 -
Exactly solvable quantum state reduction models with time-dependent coupling
A closed-form solution to the energy-based stochastic Schrödinger equation with time-dependent coupling is derived, showing that energy variance can be reduced under the dynamics and that complete state reduction occurs if the time-integrated coupling diverges, with a finite-tim…
DOI: 10.1088/0305-4470/39/35/006 -
Noether Symmetries and Conservation Laws in Non-Static Plane Symmetric Spacetime
The paper classifies Noether symmetries of the Lagrangian for the most general nonstatic plane-symmetric spacetime using a Rif-tree Maple approach, obtaining metrics with Noether algebras of dimensions 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, and 17, and deriving the associated conserved quantitie…
DOI: 10.3390/sym14102174